two sad notes - just heard that pink floyd founder and keyboardist richard wright has died of cancer at 65. .
also, a remarkable writer, david foster wallace, hung himself last friday.
he was 46, gifted, and had long battled depression.
I heard of Rick Wright's passing coming home. So sad. Such great music. The latter two probably my favourites.
Echoes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kQNFyEI2rs&feature=related
Shine On You Crazy Diamond Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_gmXtxScYs
Comfortably Numb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY&feature=related
who of us will be affected?
please report in so we will know you are safe when it's over.
what are your plans?
I just finished talking to my brother who lives just south of Houston. The sun is shining but he can see the dark clouds coming from the south. His wife left with the horses yesterday. He has a couple of things to do and hopefully he will leave by noon. He is taking his laptop so he will still be able to communicate with us. I pray that everyone will be safe.
so it stuck me the other day that modern jw prophecy is notnearly as bizarrely cocky as such past gems like the "house ofprinces" (1925?
) or even the 1975 fiasco.
i would seem thatthey have learned the value of the vague.
First, I am not, never have been a witness. The org isn't the only one taking notice of the UN.
When I first heard this I thought the possibility was very remote. I'm not so sure now. I don't believe it will happen overnight. It will happen very slowly and sneakily.
Islam is very powerful. They do want world domination. They feel cheated of an inheritance and feel that they, and not Israel, are God's chosen people, contrary to what the bible says. The fact alone that they have so many children in comparison to the rest of the population, they are basically taking over Europe.
If you still think this can't happen here, I'm sure Europe at one time felt the same way.
Now Islam is pressuring the UN to pass a resolution called Combating Defamation of Religions.
For America to survive they need to work together, both Democrats and Republicans, on what's best for the country. Muslims must be lapping it up, the mud-slinging, the anger and hatred from many on both sides, feeling that the country is disintegrating from within.
re overtake of Europe: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50020
In case you don't think worldnet is reliable: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544238/Islam-is-taking-over,-says-Dutch-politician.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69163
letter by dr. julius mantey - .
misquoted by the watchtower society.
http://caic.org.au/jws/theology/mantey.htm.
Here is a link to a long list of scholars that were misquoted by the Watchtower.
http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/Scholars%20and%20NWT.htm#Howard
november 15 study edition, p24 para 5.. "regarding his "thorn in the flesh", paul made fervent pleas to jehovah (the scripture actually says the lord) read 2 cor 12: 8 - 10) god did not miraculously relieve paul of the "thorn in the flesh".
instead, god strengthened him to endure it.
jehovah's (whose???
Sorry hamsterbait, I feel that I hijacked your thread. I should have started a new topic. I will contribute to yours later. Off to work now.
maybe for the same reason the bible namecalls:.
sinners.
undeserving.
I'm motivated by the bible.....it is my first love and I can't divorce OT from NT, and when God commited genocide in noahs day how do people justify that, Did Jesus condemn his father for noah's flood? or himself if you are a christian who believes jesus is God therefore, he himself was responsible for the flood and any other extreme actions concerning law-breaking, we wouldn't have to worry about pedophiles then they were just taken away and killed.
Renaia: you don't seem to have a concept of the triune God. Jesus is not God the Father, He is God the Son. I can give you scripture after scripture supporting the trinity if you wish, but I realize that for a witness, because they are so indoctrinated against it, that it's very hard to believe that it could be true. My mom is slowly breaking away but this is the one area she is having great difficulty. She has been a witness for 34 years and is finally admitting to me that my dad and her have always questioned the org. She wonders where the love is that they talk about. She sees the hypocrisy. She questions some of the beliefs.
If you are truly motivated by the bible as you say then in time you will see the organization for what it is, a false prophet with false teachings. Please compare your NWT with other bibles. Who translated your bible? Don't read just bits and pieces. Read it with without watchtower aids. As for the pedophiles, does the org believe that the JW pedophiles who are protected within the org will be safe because they are within the "arc"?
There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Romans 3:10-12
The wages of sin is death. The good news is that Jesus died for our sins. He paid the price. It doesn't say if you belong to a particular organization you will be saved. If you believe in Him you will have eternal life with Him.
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
Christians believe in Christ Jesus. I personally don't believe that JW's are true Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a different Jesus, one who doesn't Mediate for you, and my understanding is that the bible isn't even written for you, but only for the 144,000 annointed. (correct me if I'm wrong on the latter) I believe that the 144,000 are literal male Jews. I believe that they will preach the Gospel of Jesus to their own people in the last days. Some churches believe that the Church has replaced Israel. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the 144,000 have replaced Israel. This is Replacement Theology. If you read Revelations you will see that the Great Crowd is in the same place as the 144,000. God has never given up on the Jews. He never gives up on anyone. He wants all to be saved.
I recommend reading Romans 11:1-2, Romans 11:11-28 Ephesians 2:11-22 Ephesians 3:2-6 and you may come away with a much different view than what you have been taught about the 144,000 by the organization.
the question of readers article in june jws only wt magazine (the one which is studied in august) deals with romans 11 : 26 where paul writes that "all israel will be saved".
as we know, if ct russell believed that this statement was to be understood literally and he expected the jews to convert to christianity as a sign of christ's return, the current position of the wts, as explained in this qfr article, is that "spiritual" israel and not fleshly israel is what it is about in rom.
chapter 11 and christ's return will be marked by the completion of the whole number of the 144 000 anointed.
I started a personal study on this very subject. See http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/164503/3047305/post.ashx#3047305
I don’t believe that God has ever forsaken Israel. Four covenants that He made with Israel are everlasting. As Gentiles we didn’t have the hope. We were outsiders looking in. When Jesus died that barrier was lifted and we are now grafted into that same tree as Israel. We are one.
Romans 11:1-2, Romans 11:11-28 Ephesians 2:11-22 Ephesians 3:2-6
maybe for the same reason the bible namecalls:.
sinners.
undeserving.
Renaia:
You are upset over a few people making derogatory remarks regarding the organization, which in my estimation is rather minor compared to what the organization does. Witnesses feel persecuted yet time and time again who is it that actually does the persecuting and name calling? It is the Watchtower that is guilty of these things towards Christianity, or for that matter anyone that is not a witness. I have been called a worldly person because I am not a witness (never have been). I know that it’s very derogatory to be called worldly by a witness. This person knows nothing about me. Thankfully my mom (who is a witness) does know me, and more important, God knows me. Below a couple of quotes from two Watchtower magazines. I’ll ask again who is name calling, persecuting and judging a whole world of non-witnesses. The organization is guilty of the very things they accuse "Christendom" of. The pedophelia situation within the org is one. They state that worldy people have no hope. I have the hope of eternal life. Can each witness truthfully state that they have the hope of eternal life?Rosalie
: You state that your organization is the only truth. Can you show me biblically why you believe this to be the case? Can you show me biblically that Jesus chose this organization over Christianity and for what reason? Can you show me biblically where the organization has replaced Jesus? (ie: Mediator, Truth) Because a group of men have stated that they are the truth doesn’t make it so. You need biblical proof to back up that claim and unless we actually read the bible in context, and not just bits and pieces that seems to agree with a particular doctrine we would never realize that. I will believe Jesus over any man.John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
THE WATCHTOWER • JUNE 15, 2008
Today, there are hundreds of conflicting religions in the realm of Christendom. The Bible pointed to the rise of Christendom's clergy, describing them collectively as "the man of lawlessness" and
"the son of destruction whom the LordJesus will do away with and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence." -2 Thess. 2:3, 6-8. Christendom's clergy are lawless in that they have misled millions by promoting teachings, holidays, and behavior contrary to the Bible. Like the religious leaders whom Jesus condemned, the modern-day worshippers who are part of "the son of destruction" face destruction with no hope of a resurrection. (2 Thess. 1:6-9)
Today, billions of humans are involved in various forms of false religion that can be traced back to ancient Babylon. (Gen. 11:6-9) Collectively, those religions are designated as "Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth." (Rev. 17:5)
Additional "disgusting things" include acts of pedophilia and other forms of sexual immorality committed by clergymen and tolerated by the church authorities. Is it any wonder that jehovah God will soon rid this earth of false religion? -Rev. 18:8.
THE WATCHTOWER • JANUARY 15, 2008
The vast majority of mankind, however, are unaware of the real significance of world events. As a result, many are anxious about their own safety and that of their families. The loss of loved ones in death or other personal tragedies leave many distraught. Without accurate knowledge of why such things happen and where the solution lies, these people are without hope.—Eph. 2:12.
"Babylon the Great," the world empire of false religion, has brought little comfort to the masses. On the contrary, by means of "the wine of her fornication," she has made multitudes stagger in spiritual confusion. Moreover, by acting like a harlot, false religion has seduced and controlled "the kings of the earth," using lying doctrines and spiritistic practices to keep the masses in passive subservience to their political masters. False religion has thus gained power and influence, but at the same time, she has completely rejected religious truth.—Rev. 17:1, 2, 5; 18:23.
http://www.lulu.com/content/1331198.
the new world translation (nwt) is published by the watchtower bible and tract society.
this is the organization that jehovahs witnesses belong to.
When you compare the NWT with their Kingdom Interlinear you soon realize that this is an unreliable translation.
Just two examples.
New World Translation: Col 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all (other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth; the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him, and for him. Also, he is before all (other) things and by means of him all (other) things were made to exist.
Kingdom Interlinear)
Col 1:15-17 who is image of the God the invisible, firstborn of all creation, 16 because in him it was created the all (things) in the heavens and upon earth, the (things) visible and the (things) invisible, whether thrones or lordships or governments or authorities; the all (things) through him and into him it has been created; 17 and he is before all (things) and the all (things) in him it has stood together,New World Translation: John 1:1 In (the) beginning the Word was; and the Word was with God, and the word was a god. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward the God, and god was the Word.
Kingdom Interlinear: John 1:1 In beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward the God, and god was the Word.
Greek Text (literal rendering) : “and the Word was [en] with [pros] the God [ton theon], and God [theos] was the Word.” In biblical Greek, “God” with the article (“the”) and “God” without the article (i.e., the anarthrous theos) as in John 1:1c (lit., “and God was the Word”) can both refer to the one true God—context dictates the meaning. Further, many JWs incorrectly think that the two terms translated “God” (theon and theos) in 1:1 mean two different things: ton theon (“the God”) being the almighty God (Jehovah) and the anarthrous theos(“God”) being a mighty god (Jesus). However, the difference in spelling is due to their function in the sentence— not their meaning!
last night....did not go well at all, at least in my opinion.
i feel that the sister from her conversations with my wife started on a quite defensive mode....did my best to stay level headed, but i know there were times i was frustrated, and it showed.. .
the husband and wife were about 40 minutes late, due to traffic, and they were not prepared to discuss michael/jesus, and with respect to the doctrine change, he merely provided me a 1995 and 1997 wt article, when he and i spoke on the phone, he said he was going to show me in the bible, he sort of danced around this a lot, but not to my satisfaction.. .
insearchoftruth: I'm so sorry things didn't go well. Because of time I haven't read all the responses so I might be repeating things already said. Next time you have to choose the subjects and don't sway from them. I suggest praying for guidance beforehand and getting as much information as you can on the subjects you want to discuss.
Your wife sounds much like my mom. My mom doesn't really know everything being taught. Never having been a witness I know more about the JW beliefs than she does. She does question though and is confused about various doctrines. I do believe that she will eventually leave the witnesses. The main reason I believe she will get out is because she receives nothing from this organization. She hasn't gone to the meetings and no one checks up on her; not people from her old cong or the people in the new cong. She feels that this new cong is very cold.
She has periodically been coming with me to church and I know she sees a difference. People at my church show genuine happiness and love for each other; not to say it's a perfect church, there is no such thing. Last Sunday we had a social time in the evening and I couldn't get my mom to leave. She was having a really good time.
Keep loving your wife and please be patient. She needs to keep an open mind and if she does she will see that things don't add up. Just because an org says that it alone is the truth doesn't make it so. The bible certainly doesn't support that belief.
As the head of the house could you have a bible study with your wife on a regular basis using the bible alone? She sounds easily swayed, and you need to be strong. If she sees that you are earnestly searching the truth how can she object? You both learn together.
Even my mom now realizes that no one church or organization has the "truth"; that they are all manmade. That's a huge step for her. Some are more closer to the truth than others. I don't even consider the JW org anywhere near the truth.
The Org has replaced themselves with Jesus at every turn. They don't celebrate his birth, he is only the Mediator between God and the 144,000, they don't participate in communion.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Matthew 24:5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
